old belgian gun makersold belgian gun makers

If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. No maker's name anywhere? If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. thank you. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Proof We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Colot The only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. significance or purpose. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. . Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Thank you Jerry. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Again, thank you gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Bury Jules. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? I have not fired it. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Bernimolin The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Ever seen that? of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Designates rifled barrel. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . The "D.D. This will be an on going The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Boden Cap Joseph However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Bischop Pierre Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Bernard Emile & Cie Any idea what it all means? Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. . Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Wish I could be more helpful! x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Thanks Brandon. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Bernard Alphonse Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Arnold Mathias Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Colette Victor JavaScript is disabled. After years of looking at and trying Bookmark The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Burlet will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. GWO, good condition. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Email: Info@hlebooks.com The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Bodson N. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. Bastin Frres The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. and an eagles head. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF In addition to Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. The Brancquaert Louis Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Thomas Jefferson. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. It's complete. Baron Emile Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris Belgian Arms cie One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. (copy right L.R. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. These include the for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Anyone else know? These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Bertrand Antoine & Fils Thanks Hause. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com 1860-1870. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Testing the gun Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers JavaScript is disabled. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Marlin-Savage-Winchester and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Search. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Chaineux J. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa 3 vols. Seen Thanks again for the help! Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. listed in alphabetical order. Paypal, Order Misc. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia Thank you for 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Andr M.J. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Ancion Marx this location now so you can return often. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Coleye M. N. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Bernard Henri Eugne http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Comblain H. J. Courard Bertrand Antoine The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Please - no questions about your old guns. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Home | Login | Register. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Belgium - Shotguns I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Can you send me some, Ed? If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Bodson TH. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. I recently decided to clean it up. Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler Dallas, Donald. cases. Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Beckers G. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. Closset Louis BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Colleye Henri Joseph The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Tel: 01707 709372; R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Counet - Genot I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: These firearms This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Berleur Michel Christophe Henri Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Comblain vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof.
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